Robby: This call is being

Ernest: recorded.

Hello, Robbie.

Robby: Hi.

I, um, didn't see the initial
notice, but I got your note

and then went and found it.

So yeah.

Ernest: Great, great.

Welcome back.

I'm not sure if we're publishing this as
a podcast, but it felt like I wanted to

least get a record and see, uh, because
it feels like God's doing something new.

Yeah, I was thinking about the last
call we, we had, uh, sorry, did

you, were you gonna say something?

Robby: No, go ahead.

Yeah.

Ernest: Yeah.

And that it felt like we ended
up, uh, thinking more than

relating, and I think you said
intellectual rather than intuitive.

So I thought, um, one of the possible
failure modes is I had an agenda.

And to have an agenda is very left brain,
and that kind of sets the wrong tone.

Or at least as a risk of, uh, becoming
me centered rather than Christ centered.

So I thought we could just
start by reflecting on what

Jesus wants to say to us.

Is there anything he wants us to
know, anything he wants us to do?

And start by sharing that.

Robby: Okay.

They thought that came to me immediately,
uh, was some of the stories Jamie's

told about going as far as you
can in your, uh, rational mind and

then going on into the intuitive.

So I, I don't see one as, you
know, anyway, um, just, that

was the thought, but yeah.

Let's, uh, uh, just invite Jesus.

What, what do you want us to know or,
or what do you wanna speak to us about?

Is that the place you
were suggesting We focus?

Yep.

Ernest: Let's go.

Robby: We don't have a, uh,
mute thing here that I see.

So how do we know I'm ready whenever?

Ernest: Yeah.

I think the two of us will
just do the verbal, um, yeah.

Uh, you wanna share first?

Robby: Um, well, so just what's on my mind
is, uh, connect don't separate and, uh,

I was, uh, on the, um, in the received
community yesterday morning, the breakout.

And, uh, one woman was sharing, uh, her,
she was new in the community, sharing

her fear that, uh, she's not gonna make
it, uh, satisfy God and get in heaven.

And, um, just a lot of,
a lot of fear with her.

And I was leading her toward the receive
experience and somebody else in that, uh.

With the fear had shared, uh, the negative
view of God that she's, you know, has

received through her denomination.

Yeah.

And another woman on the call said,
uh, I'm gonna drop off before, before I

do, I just want you to know that Tyson
and I are both members of the Church

of Jesus Christ, of Latterday Saints,
and we don't believe that about God.

She dropped off and, uh, the woman
that was fearful that I was trying

to work with then didn't wanna go any
further and said, you know, what comes

to her mind is the, um, verse that
Satan disguises himself as an enemy

of light, or is an angel of light.

Sorry.

Mm-hmm.

So then I followed up with this
other gal about why she was in,

felt it was appropriate to invite
this other woman to her church.

She said, well, I didn't mean
to invite her to the church.

I just, uh, and anyway, we're I,
when you, when we started this

meeting, I was just in the middle
of interact with her through the.

I think through the, so anyway, so as
I was praying this morning, uh, I had

contacted that woman to follow up.

Why did she feel, and she responded as
if she felt attacked by my question and.

Since I had from the Lord
this morning was connect.

Don't separate, don't let this.

Um, and from, uh, Phil and Joel in
the last Friday or a week before

last Friday, uh, they pointed me
to forward somebody's, um, Ford

Ernest: Taylor.

Robby: Yeah, his and I've, I've been going
a little bit through that and thinking

about the process of approaching somebody
where there's a awkwardness or offense.

So I'm in the midst of this process.

Don't, don't separate connect, and uh.

Yeah.

Anyway, so that's what ran through my
mind when I asked Jesus about that.

Um, and maybe that's, you know,
like, uh, if I've, I hadn't even

recalled our past experience.

I mean, I, when you mentioned it,
I thought was really that, that

really I last interaction where,
uh, we felt like it was more.

I forgot what you said.

Intellectual than, uh,

Ernest: the phrase you used was more,
more, more intellectual than intuitive.

Robby: Ah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, anyway, I, I, that hadn't
stuck with me, but, uh, um, as we,

as I was just asking Jesus, what,
uh, the, the separation separate

don't connect is what came to me
again from my time this morning.

And that's the context.

Ernest: Okay.

Did you say separate?

Don't connect.

Robby: Uh, that's the Freudian.

Yeah.

Connector.

Separate.

Okay.

Yeah.

Ernest: Right.

Yeah.

Um, and interesting.

So, um, I think that actually messes well,
so the first thing I heard was that this

is a new season, both literally, like this
is a new season of our podcast that we

Robby: Right.

Ended

Ernest: the last season.

Okay.

In between with.

It does feel like this is a new season and
particular I wanted to talk about, uh, the

email we got from Eric and Joan and Janet.

I'm not sure which ones you were on,
or if I just forward you the last one

Robby: I got, I think, well, I,
I got all the ones that I got and

I didn't get any of the others.

Ernest: Okay.

I mean, did you get an email from
Eric and from and from Janet?

Robby: Yes.

And I saw your reply about em.

Ernest: Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

So just to catch everyone up, uh,
in 2021, we started, uh, well,

2020 we started the Great Reset
with Ted Hawes as a YouTube thing.

And then in 2021 we started,
uh, DBJ, the Cycl by Jesus.

Um, and we did this, I think six seven
week, uh, uh, series and two sessions on

a Thursday night and a Friday morning.

With my dad and father-in-law and maybe
a dozen other people, um, including,

uh, Janet and Emiliana and, um, Ross
Lambert and his wife, and a couple

of other friends of yours, I think.

Robby: Yeah, I, I glanced at the channel
recently and saw that most of our videos

have 12, 13 views except for the interview
with Jamie Winship, which has 4,500.

Ernest: Really?

Wow.

Robby: Yeah,

Ernest: that was impressive.

Um, so we've gotten sucked into
the, uh, Jamie Winship vortex

of people binge watching him.

Yeah, well, I

Robby: found, I came back to the
channel because one of those popped

up as I've been, uh, watching, you
know, the, somehow the algorithm

knows I'm interested in Jamie.

So

Ernest: anyway, um, but anyway, so that
was DBJ and that was also going through

the crisis in my marriage at that time.

And the thing that struck me
is that I think that was, I

was going through a crisis.

I think you were heading into a crisis.

If I recall correctly, and it was
really clear that, uh, in order to

move forward, this was the thing
that God had to bring healing to.

Um, and so, um, and what's interesting
on a couple of levels is that Janet

had been working on the apples
of gold piece and, um, owning the

problem, relational, uh, healing bit.

And this was the thing that she
actually, that Eric first, you

know, uh, wanted to endorse to us.

And then Janet timed in is that Janet
has been working to develop this.

Um, I'll apples and dunno what
the terminology is for it.

Um, you know, the award in season is
apples and gold setting of silver.

And, uh, even doing some hybrids.

With some of the DBJ stuff.

And so, you know, just sending us that
last night after, you know, I invited

MIL to our church for the 27th 'cause
I was singing there and she was saying,

oh, we need to do the DBJ thing again.

Mm-hmm.

And I guess the last bit on
that was, I got this word.

In January, uh, like three different
people in the space of about eight

days saying, go, go, go do the thing
that God has put in your heart.

Okay?

And I assumed that was business
oriented to my startup, but now I'm

starting to wonder is maybe that was
not incorrectly, but not completely,

uh, aligned with actually something
more along the lines of this.

The DBJ thing, so.

Right.

That's, um, and I think what's interesting
is, and I just skimmed it since it's

early in the morning, and this was all
late last night, but I got the email

from Thailand, uh, from Eric mm-hmm.

That there something deeply relational

that, that is foreign to how I succeed.

I succeed by thinking clearly and drawing
finer distinctions, separating things out.

Robby: Right?

Ernest: And there's, um, so
lots of thoughts around that.

But that's the, uh, the, I guess the
thing on my heart, uh, which maybe is

messes with the thing on your heart
and hopefully on Jesus' heart is.

How do we step into a new way of
being that, uh, prioritizes connection

over separation, and how do we create
context that help others do the same?

Robby: Yep.

Ernest: In that order.

Robby: Well, I have

Ernest: many thoughts and things that
have been happening along that, but

lemme just, can we just take a moment
on that and see if that feels like the

right thing to press into for the next,
you know, half hour or however long

before the unpaid plan cuts us off?

Robby: Sure.

Restate the question.

Ernest: Is that the, the most
important challenge, uh, I

guess is for the two of us.

To both individually and with each
other, learn to step into this

new way of being that prioritizes
connection over separation.

Amen.

Robby: Yeah.

Ernest: And then secondarily,
very much secondarily, learn how

to extend, that's a better term.

Extend that context to others.

Robby: Right.

So is there a question?

Uh, my

Ernest: first question was for
you that just take a moment.

Let's just reflect and see if that's
the, a way of phrasing what it is.

We should spend the next hour,

Robby: right?

All right.

Yeah, no, it sounds,
uh, really good to me.

The, uh, thing I was thinking about
just before this, as I was dealing with

that, uh, issue in the receive community
is the, what Jamie says about, um, how

labels, uh, of group or gang names.

Immediately bring separation.

You know, if people in

mention political party, they you mm-hmm.

In, uh.

You know, we love Jesus,
uh, that unites us.

But anything beyond that, uh, in
terms of label group labels, uh,

is just gonna bring division.

So, um, yeah, but connection
over separation, um, and how to

move into that and how to be,
be in a way that promotes that.

So, I dunno if you see that
I signed in as Armor Bear.

Ernest: No, it doesn't show.

I'm, I'm, I'm on my watch

Robby: mostly,

Ernest: so, uh, lemme see that.

But that's interesting.

Um, yeah, I still love the pun of
that, um, when you read it rather than

when you say it, rather than read it.

Um, the other interesting thing it
felt like that I should at least

mention is I'm going through this
exercise with Joel's community that I

guess out all America, it's kind of.

Um, but uh, two guys, Jacob and Steve
Miller, uh, Steve Miller and Jacob Gardner

are working on what we were calling the
cultivation circle, where we try to, um,

curate some of the evolving practices.

And one of the foundational
points that, um, we were sort of

trying to find words for was about
really prioritizing relationships,

Robby: uhhuh, and it was

Ernest: our relationships with each other.

Relationships with Christ and our
relationship with his kingdom.

Robby: Yeah.

Ernest: And when they shared that,
it's like, wait, that feels off.

Like shouldn't it be first with
Christ and then with each other,

and then with his kingdom.

Robby: Okay.

Ernest: But the more I reflected on it, it
felt like, well, there's something there,

Robby: uhhuh,

Ernest: that we come together
with each other, you know?

And even if it's just for a minute or
two, we check in, like, who's here?

Who's there?

Like, where are you?

Okay, let's now invite
Christ to host the meeting.

And it feels, um, I guess
subtle but profound.

We start from a connection with
each other, Uhhuh, and I guess

it's even biblical, right?

When two or three are gathered in
my name, then I am there in midst,

Robby: right?

Ernest: And honoring that connection
as the context of wound Christ.

Otherwise, I think I fall into the,
this is how I hear price, and now

I'm gonna test you to see whether.

Robby: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think also of a verse, uh, maybe I'm
misremembering it, but that, uh, if we

don't love our brother, we can't love God.

Or maybe it's, uh, whoever loves us.

Ernest: No.

If we don't love the brother, we have
seen how come we love God, we don't see,

Robby: yeah.

That's it.

Ernest: Yeah.

And there's a, maybe there's a.

I don't wanna call it preparation or
maybe a vulnerability of just in this

place, I am accepting these people
and I'm inviting Christ into it.

Robby: Right.

And

Ernest: trust that if Christ shows
up, he'll figure out the rest of it.

Robby: Yeah.

Ernest: Um, and I guess that's a
very Jamie Winship thing, right?

If he goes, I think the other phrase
he used was militant peacemaker.

Like if you go somewhere and.

He carries Jesus within him.

And it doesn't matter if they're
Muslims or Buddhists or, you know,

threatening to kill him like Jesus
is, if he, um, he is carrying Jesus

Robby: right?

Ernest: And he doesn't need, and
this is the, lemme take a moment.

There's something here that I've been
grappling with that I need figure out

if this right time to articulate it.

Okay, this is weird.

I don't wanna go here, but this feels
like, uh, attention worth calling out.

Robby: Okay.

Ernest: And it was, someone sent me
a video clip, I think it was legit.

About Trump endorsing a Bible,
and it said that it's really

important that we defend Jesus.

This is like the USA Bible or something.

Robby: Oh,

Ernest: and you know, and my first
race, well, well, of course we, you

know, we don't need to defend Jesus.

Right.

But that's not entirely
true like Jesus' parents.

All right.

There is it, you know, there, and you
know, you can see the difference in, in

places where Christianity was protected
by the authorities like Europe versus like

Japan and China where it was obliterated.

Robby: Right.

Okay.

Um,

Ernest: y you know, and to be fair,
part of the reason was obliterated is

'cause they perceived Christ as Western.

But that's, uh, uh, more complicated,
sorry, that I can get into right now.

But this is a tension that I'm
working through in our church.

And maybe in the church as a whole
is that we create institutions and

practices and theology to protect Jesus.

Right.

And it doesn't, and it feels
like we cannot skip that step.

Um, but the danger is that when we try
to protect Jesus from the outside world.

That always ends up protecting
ourselves from Jesus.

And that's the paradox, is that we
see Jesus as something that, you know,

we're the adults use a child, we have
to watch over him, and when he grows up,

that causes conflict as Mary discovers

Robby: Uhhuh.

Ernest: As a final bit on that is I met
together with the men of the church, some

of the dads of, uh, teenagers, uh, docs.

Docs, uh, dads of teenage students.

Yeah.

And we had lunch.

We've been trying to do this for months.

We finally got together for
lunch and one of the things I was

lamenting, or at least observing.

Was that in an American church, we
always, there's always a clear story.

We're trying to reach our neighborhood,
we're trying to, a story about the future.

Uh, right is we're trying to
reach our neighborhood, we're

trying to build a building,
we're trying to grow our numbers.

You know, there's a thing that
we are doing for the future.

Whereas, you know, my perception
of the Indian church is very much

like we are trying to hold on.

We've received.

Um, and I think maybe that's true of
church in America in the, in the past.

And there's no story of where we're going.

Like, can we just keep doing this
until the last generation dies off?

And then what?

And so long story short, I really
felt God, uh, challenging me to say

like, okay, God, I believe this is a
good thing because you have a story

you want to tell and it's not us,
you know, trying to impose a story

on you that aligns with our goals.

And so I'm gonna ask you today, you
know, Sunday, May 11th, that you would

do something during the service to
really show us what is the story that

you want to tell through our church so
that we can partner with you in that.

Robby: Okay?

Ernest: Um, and so the guys are
like, okay, I'm really excited.

Guy does.

It's like, oh crap.

Now what have I set myself up for?

Uh.

And there's been a lot of mother themed
issues, including my own, uh, historical

codependency, issues that have been
woven up in, um, my marriage, uhhuh and

in, um, even the theology of God, right?

The, the medieval view of God as an angry
father, and Mary is the loving mother.

You know, deeply entwined
in their theology.

I don't know exactly how, um, but it
feels like if I understood the story

and, and there's all these cultural
issues in, in my marriage, and, you

know, the, my, my brokenness and my
strength is this cultural dislocation

I feel, um, as an Indian American.

And so it feels like there's
a lot of things coming up.

And I think the biggest one
is precisely this issue of

connection over separation, right?

Uhhuh, uh, and bicultural.

Uh, I didn't really have a sense
of belonging in either one, and

anytime I tried to press into one, I
would feel the tension of the other.

Robby: Okay.

And

Ernest: therefore I felt like I had
to separate because everything I did

was wrong by one or the other culture.

And I don't know why that was true for me.

My brother, who's a year and a half
older than me, was born in India before

he came to the US He seemed both more
Indian and both more American than

I was and totally at peace with it.

Right?

Um, and you know, and so,
um, whatever reasons, and I.

Is that the way that I felt like myself
was to separate was to withdraw and judge

Robby: Uhhuh Uhhuh.

Ernest: And, and this feels like,
um, um, I guess that's the, maybe

the same metaphor is like that was,
uh, you know, we only, not only did

we have to protect Jesus when he
was small, we also had to protect

ourselves when we were small uhhuh,

Robby: right?

Ernest: If we don't survive to the.

Of developing a self, then we can
don't have a self to yield to Jesus.

Right?

But then of course we have
to yield that self to Jesus.

So, uh, there's something
developmental for me that seems

to be going on in parallel or
maybe convergent with all of this.

Robby: A phrase that, a thought that
comes to mind that, uh, maybe it was in

some of Tyson's interviews or somewhere
in Jamie, but the, um, the idea that when

we're young, we develop coping mechanisms
for the pain that we're experiencing,

and that's healthy and uh, necessary.

But as we mature those, those coping
mess mechanisms then create problems.

And, um, we need Jesus to walk
with us back through whatever drove

us into the coping mechanisms so
that we can enter into the freedom

and the fullness of life Has.

Um, learning from and, and, you
know, bearing the fruit of the,

the pain, uh, but without the, uh,
pain continuing into the present

in the future and, uh, causing, uh,
contributing anyway to, uh, separation.

Ernest: Yeah.

And this is, um, I think I may have
sent you the, I'm not sure I sent you

a couple of links and they were in
the previous season of this podcast.

Um, one was this idea of rethinking
this whole concept of heresy.

Which is, you know, just

in the DOES doctrine means.

Robby: And it's

Ernest: not a negative term.

The plurality of uses are to talk
about following Jesus as a sect.

As a heresy.

Robby: Okay.

Right.

Ernest: And then, uh, even the negative
uses of too neutral uses, just talking

about the sect of the Pharisees.

But then the three negative
uses, two of them are just

about divisiveness in general.

Robby: Mm-hmm.

Ernest: And one of them is
about, uh, divisive doctrine.

Robby: So

Ernest: it's not that we must separate
from doctrine because it's evil, right?

It's doctrine is evil if it separates us,

Robby: Uhhuh,

Ernest: uh, uh, and that the
idea of the Christ, the only true

heresy, the only thing like Christ
is, is price does separate us.

Right?

You know, he definitely pump
promises division and whatever, and

like that is a thing that he does.

And if we do anything other than
that, that's a false heresy.

Robby: Right.

Ernest: Um, that was one idea that,
you know, um, but then the second

idea, um, when I was talking with
my mentor, Corey, that this picture

of the universe as a system of
divisions and separation, whether

that's an intellectual level of ideas.

Combining or a biological level of
evolution or a physical level of stars

and galaxies and atoms, whatever,
there's this, uh, emergent, generative

dynamic that comes out of diverging and
reconciling, diverging and converging.

Mm-hmm.

And the coin coining the phrase a
dia or dia to describe this and.

This was the thing that my friend and I,
um, we were talking about at breakfast

yesterday, and I realized I get stuck
at is, um, like, and I guess in, in

my marriage is that I need to, you
know, and I think my wife had to do the

same thing coming from Indian culture.

Robby: Mm-hmm.

Uh,

Ernest: we separate ourselves.

Like Indian culture is very much, you
know, uh, historically very communal.

The concept of boundaries don't exist.

Like when I call my parents on the
phone, they each have their own phone.

I never know which one is
gonna pick up which phone.

'cause they're so enmeshed.

Robby: Uh, okay.

You know,

Ernest: they've been doing
it for 60 years, they've made

it work, so God bless them.

But it's very weird from
an American perspective.

Uh, yeah.

You know how, uh, uh, uh,
undifferentiated they are in many ways.

And, um.

The, the thing that I realized is that one
of the reasons we had a crisis in, in my

marriage in 2021 is that she, I had never
given her the space to differentiate.

Uh, and I did some things that really,
uh, highlighted the pain of that.

So she had to, in a very
necessary and healthy way.

And then, um, it was painful for both
of us and the, um, you know, and I've

been trying to process all of that in a
way where I've had to sort of pull back

from some of the investment I've had

Robby: uhhuh

Ernest: in order to see
clearly what's going on.

And that was necessary and
vital, but probably may have

actually increased her pain.

And some of the things that I've
done, and certainly some of the

ways, the lens that I interpreted
through is this separation worldview.

Robby: Yeah.

Ernest: And in order to, uh, move
forward, there's a sense in which I

have to surrender that separation,
which I use to define my identity.

And the phrase that keeps
coming to mind is incarnation.

Right.

It's.

Uh, but when Jesus entered into
flesh, entered into the Jewish

culture and the Jewish community

Robby: Right.

Ernest: You know, he um, often said,
sometimes I wonder, the only thing

difference between Jesus and us is
that he knew who his father was.

Robby: Yeah.

Ernest: Right.

And even at age 12, he had this sense of,
um, connection to the father in a way.

And I.

Being able to enter
into these communities.

If we know our connection to Jesus.

If we're rooted in that,

Robby: you're right,

Ernest: then we can let go of all
these other coping mechanisms,

identities, tropes, labels, whatever,
and um, be fully emotionally

present for other people, right?

And identify with them even
as from my perspective, Jesus.

Identified, perhaps even over identified
with, uh, the Jewish community

depending on how you read the encounter
with the Syrophoenician woman Uhhuh.

Um, and that, that was necessary
and healthy incarnation

and like this is, it feels like
it's all coming to a, and this is.

I think this is the interesting thing
is if I go with this, you know, not

the JOY, Jesus others, yourself,
framing of sort of evangelicalism, but

connect with each other, connect with
Christ, connect with this kingdom.

Um, if I internalize, if I experience
that by doing that in community.

Then that's the thing that I didn't know
four years ago and hadn't, you know,

conceptually much less experientially.

Uh, that is the new season.

Robby: Take a moment.

Um, sure.

Yeah.

Uh, just confession.

I.

While we were talking mm-hmm.

While you were talking, I think
I dozed off because that's my

too, I go there too easily.

So, um, I think I missed the last
quarter part of what you were giving too.

Ernest: Sure.

And, um, I also wanna try and wrap
this up in case the call dies.

Okay.

Um, the thing that I'm sensing is that I,
and, and this, I think I've sort of known

this, but I didn't really see it clearly.

Is that the last four years,
um, my wife's had to go through

a self differentiation process

Robby: that I got.

Right?

And,

Ernest: and, and that the way that
I coped with that was, uh, maybe

that forced me to go through a self
differentiation process of being less

enmeshed, finding less of my identity
and validation and how she regards me,

Robby: right?

Ernest: And that the, the
last barrier I have is.

There's part of me that
one is still enmeshed

Robby: uhhuh,

Ernest: uh, and therefore I react to
that by holding myself separate from her.

Um, uh, which is odd, but it
feels like right when I say it

Robby: uhhuh,

Ernest: um, is that the, the,
the urge to separate is actually

a sign of enmeshment rather than
healthy self, self differentiation.

And it's rooted in fear Uhhuh.

And if I embrace this idea, like we
must connect with each other to see.

To relate properly to his kingdom Uhhuh.

Robby: And that

Ernest: the root of that is, is really
having an identity rooted in God.

Like that's the, that's
the thing that I need.

That's the thing that our church needs.

That's the thing that our marriage needs.

That's this new season that God wants
to restore to the body of Christ.

And I'm seeing like Janet and, and
Joel and Tyson, other people are,

are, are already working on this.

Robby: Yep.

Ernest: Yeah.

But one of our pieces is because of
our dysfunction and our ident and our

false identities and our true histories,

Robby: we

Ernest: conceptualize
this in a clearer way.

Yeah.

Robby: Yeah.

So we

Ernest: can, even if we miscon
conceptualize it in a way that

obscures it and like this is
the thing that we just have to

experience, I think, with each other,

Robby: Uhhuh, in

Ernest: order to understand it
for ourselves and uh, for others.

Robby: Thoughts running through my head
relates directly or indirectly, but, uh,

overarching been.

We can experience life as a burden or a
test or a chore or variety of other ways.

But I think, uh, at least my, the
way I'm now perceiving it as that

God intent or desire is for us to
experience it as an adventure with us.

That.

Uh, so that's just, I don't know if
it relates to anything else we talked

about, but this morning there was a,
an additional thought related to that,

that, uh, there are no, uh, actually
I heard, uh, Tyson refer to how he

feels after he makes a mistake and
immediately my mind went to, there are.

We might not wanna otherwise process
or that we might avoid processing.

Um, but that the mistake and the
feelings that follow a sense of making

a mistake are again, an invitation by
the Lord into, um, and in effect, I

think what I hear you reflecting on is.

Uh, things that you might now consider
to have been a mistake in the way

you've related to yourself or to
Sanja or your parents or whatever.

But these are all part of this
amazing adventure that we grow from

by reflecting and being with the Lord
and walking with the Lord through.

So that's swirling.

Ernest: Yeah, so that's good.

And uh, I think we got the five
minute warning, which is nice.

And so there's this thing
I think we've done before.

I dunno if I gave you, it's called the
Tongan Close, um, where we take the

last five minutes of the meeting and we
ask Jesus, is there anything more that

needs to be said, either that he leaves
to say or that was on our heart, that

forgiveness, we need forgiveness
to or ask forgiveness for.

A moment and do That's okay.

Robby: I am ready whenever all.

Ernest: Yeah.

Um, you know, the only thing I heard
was that, uh, um, is that everything

will be forgiven and, and that I just
need to give up the right to do the

spirit's work of convicting the world
of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

As long let go, that then everything isia.

And there's no shame.

It's all, it's all glory.

I.

Robby: Yeah.

Beautiful.

Uh,

Ernest: what

Robby: through my mind is I love you,
Ernie, and I'm grateful to be your friend.

Ernest: Well, I love you too, Robbie.

I don't think I say that or feel
that, but I know that it's true.

And, um, this is another Joel line.

Friendship is the organization.

Someone pointed out that
it doesn't say greater.

You know that love is to the, to lay
down your life for your family or

your country, or even for God, right?

The greatest love is to lay
down your life for your friends

Robby: uhhuh.

Ernest: And so I guess
we can just pray it out.

Lord, we just thank
you for this chance to.

With, uh, the whole beginning of
the DBJ movement in 20 20, 20 21

with Janet and Eric and Emiliana.

We thank you for the journey
you've taken us through, Lord.

And yeah, I declare that
there's no real mistakes.

There's just unintended lessons
and everything is working

together for your glory, Lord.

So I just wanna release any resentment
I have towards my wife, towards Robbie.

Towards you, uh, towards my
family and towards my mother,

uh, on this Mother's Day.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, towards the church.

And just accept that everything that
has happened is part of a love letter.

You are writing to me and through me.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I just wanna yield myself to receive
the love that you are demonstrating

through all of these things.

So that I can grow an intimacy with you.

Uh, so the people I love can
grow closer to you, and so the

world can see who you truly are.

Robby: Amen.

I'll, uh, text you a picture of a
book that a friend of mine, uh, wrote

recently in which, uh, the, um, it's
a large, it's stirred by the research

into all the surviving documents
from Christians prior to Constantine.

Uh, show a complete, complete
rejection of any form of violence.

And the, the switch.

Uh, so let's see.

I've got the, oh no,
the picture disappeared.

Well, I'll have to take it again and
send it, but, uh, so I don't have

the name of the book in front of me.

Oh, I do, I do.

I've got a copy right here.

One New Humanity, glory Violence, and
the Gospel of Peace with Christian One.

New, uh, Christian and Werner.

Listen.

Ernest: God bless you.

Bye.