You
Hey Robbie

Robby Butler
How are you today?

You
I'm good it's certainly a lot easier than setting up a dial pad or whatever just doing the whole recording on the phone

Robby Butler
Yeah, not great. Did the transcript last time?

You
Sorry

Robby Butler
The transcript works well too

You
Yeah, I'm not as elegant as the script, but it works

Robby Butler
Yeah, great all right

You
And some reason is not as smart as fathom, but is

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah

You
One thing you've learned in the age of the iPhone is convenience Trump's everything and then it gets better

Robby Butler
Right, right?

You
overtime So you wanna start by just taking a moment to ask Jesus what he wants us to know and do

Robby Butler
Yeah,

You
Yeah

Robby Butler
we acknowledge welcome. Your presence with us we talk and then. That's what you want a stretch for today but you wanna stay So did you want to pursue the thing that I was asking about yesterday?

You
Yeah, so I was I heard from Jesus was that God is really excited about the new paradigm shift you're going through and I should stay

Robby Butler
Right

You
curious to try and understand where you're at and how I can help

Robby Butler
OK Yeah Well, there are Tell me if I'm getting into what you want to not just stay away from somebody

You
Why don't you just tell me will give me the background when and where you're at and what you what you wrestling with and just for me and for the three listeners

Robby Butler
So I've been across places of context were the starters come up that we have elevated the Bible? Written scripture Above what God or maybe that's not the right way to say that We replaced hearing God as an experience in a reality with him Reasoning, what? He wants us to know from written scripture So we referred the scripture as the word of God and A lot of focus within the Christian Mison Studying and interpreting fine scripture and even the focus of movements that I study to watch and plus that and a half is on obedience oriented looking at the scripture what is the telling us to do and what do we do? And trimming myself to perception that We fall into the Paris you said you search the scripture because you think they're in them and you have a parent life, but you refuse to come to me and whatever finally clicked for me that prompted this conversation Is that we have in in English? We failed to distinguish and released in my awareness and live in the body of Christ the significant of the distinction that's clear and agree. Between the logos with Chantelle is Jesus in the beginning with the logos and the logos with God love God The worst of that word From the word graphic, which is the written scripture throughout The new Old Testament, the written form is refer to processing So in the New Testament, for example, says all graphite is inspired by God work with the production encouragement But When it says the word of God is moving an active Shepherd than any sort that is not referring to the written scripture, but mentally everybody I know seems to assume that that living active word of God Faith comes right here, hearing by the word of God that's actually a spoken word of Jesus Rema but again that's not the scripture the written what we would think of this in the Bible, and I think distinguishing the scripture the written form from God's voice speaking The Bible is record of the human experience inspired by God if it's recorded so that we can see the impact of listening to God and responding and safe To lead us to listen to God and respond. Not to lead us to study the written scripture for things to obey. So I'll stop there and let your interact with that there is another parallel that I was thinking about, but maybe that's enough

You
Right right right so just to let my cards on the table I want to approach these times as a relational interaction with a hope that we achieve some level of connection through it

Robby Butler
Beautiful, beautiful love

You
OK, good so sorry

Robby Butler
Yes, beautiful I love it

You
OK, so rather than trying to solve the problem of what's wrong with Christianity what's wrong with our history in our tradition let's try to solve our problem

Robby Butler
Hello

You
And you talked briefly about this, but I think I wanna hear more about that like what is the personal issue that makes this have a emotional mistakes for you in your own relationship with God

Robby Butler
So I've been realizing recognizing that I have Not felt like I heard that Like I hear God really consistently constantly in the present and I am learning to do that and in that process, I'm realizing that I actually used God clearly consistently confidently And I gradually slipped away I'd say the first decade or so of Particularly when I watched ministry, our partner join the mission agency. I need a clearer sense and down. Looking at the factors and why how I lost that and what finger there's others from hearing in God's voice and I've come to believe that for me and many others that this Speaking what scripture says about scripture versus Jesus is Is one of the major influencers affect? If that makes sense that I was that clear enough

You
Did not it doesn't exactly because I feel like I'm missing some piece of the puzzle

Robby Butler
OK

You
OK because you were hanging around in Christian circles, you had a powerful encounter with Jesus and you started out by really trying to listen to God and I'll do what he says you to do in living by faith and seeing God show up with all these crazy miracles

Robby Butler
Right

You
At some point in that sequence, you joined the mission agency And some point along the way you got married I remember that I was part of one of the air as you should and it's something Something happened that Either That created an internal ship it's not like you started out and I don't think so. The question is like what happened either internally or externally. That led you to was it a deliberate choice or a unconscious choice

Robby Butler
Yeah, well I've been thinking about

You
Made me

Robby Butler
I didn't think about factors and that Misunderstanding of what the scripture is referring to when it talks about the word of God is one one factor there others one is evaluating whether I could God or incorrectly by the response of others. That is a very fallible way to try. That Another See you walking

You
To see if I understand what you're saying though because this is what I'm confused, but are you saying that

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
originally you had an understanding that that to hear from God meant like hearing directly from him but then you had a intellectual experience that changed your mind and you started thinking that the word of God only meant the written word

Robby Butler
Well, I did start with this experience Sensing God leaving your voice in a part of it catalyzed by reading Hudson Taylor story and deciding I wanted to know if God was not real impractical could I not tell anybody I needed money or ask for money and live on Facebook but she got provide just your prayer Until I spent a lot of time, praying and listening, walking and worship of thing, and partly just the desperation of the circumstances that I have chosen, let me into this very rich experience of God being with me and carrying me along, and After I got married, give me that transition but with By the time I got married, I didn't live with that desperation and life got busy and the time with the Lord reduced and the difference in perspective what God was saying that we didn't process well in a healthy way So there are a lot of different facts the general Christian culture, which talks about the scripture And then borrows things that are in that the scripture says about the logos, the word of God Jesus But applies to the written scripture and so we treat the written scripture as if that is the word of God rather than that's the scripture and the word that God speaks is what's living and active Cell

You
OK, that's good. That's a good helpful

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
context and the word Christian culture. Everything is a really powerful one. I wanna highlight that. And here's a radical idea Rather than searching scripture to try to understand the causes of this why don't we ask Jesus?

Robby Butler
Yeah, that's very good

You
OK, so let's just take a fast looks like there will be the public Christian culture. There is a emphasis on the written word. And an under emphasis on the living word

Robby Butler
Yeah, I would just add to that other streams where there's an overemphasis on experience and that stream seems to be at war with the stream that over emphasize scripture

You
Yeah, just as a label let's call that evangelical tradition that I grew up in mostly you know and I think you did too and

Robby Butler
OK

You
certainly the mission

Robby Butler
But

You
movement is definitely heavily tied to the evangelical movement and so as a

Robby Butler
Right

You
convenient, but not well defined label let's talk about that

Robby Butler
Right

You
stream is cause then if it's a point is that I think that are really important because a lot of that is a real life you know Protestantism is a reaction to authority centered systems like the Catholic Church and so

Robby Butler
No

You
they wait those bunch of historical baggage and in that book Rather than analyzing it, let's just take some time and ask Jesus Actually, one more thing because I think it's important because you have this thing here's the thing I'm bringing I have this This taste for Bible memorization like like the church I belong to is really heavy in the Bible quizzing and Bible memorization, and it always greats on me because I grew up in that world

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
And And like I've benefited enormously from that you're having read the scriptures through having memorized scripture knowing these things is useful now, but it was

Robby Butler
Break

You
incredibly Misleading earlier and that I grew up in this world was like just read the Bible and pray and memorize scripture and you know God will bless you. You know it's kind of the implication. I was explicitly said sometimes it was, but it was also much more deeply in the culture and if there's anything wrong with you because you haven't been in the word in us and that's when I hit the breaking point with God in addiction and having to unlearn all of that in order to connect with God and emotional levels. And I think that that is some emotional baggage I carry that I'm still working through, which feels related to this, so I wanted to lay that on the table

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
All right and I got eight minutes left so let's see what God wants to wants to say to us right I got something whenever you're ready

Robby Butler
Where I go

You
I mean, I heard Jesus say I am the living word and I am present in the spoken word and the written word And the real question is are you seeking me so you can have a relationship with me or are you seeking

Robby Butler
Right

You
knowledge so you can control me?

Robby Butler
Yeah, beautiful Beautiful That the scripture, the written word would be useful. It can also be used with Satan after years. And the filters and assumptions that we bring affect influence what we see what we pick out what we apply to others and ourselves Out of the scripture where when it says, the word of God is sharper than a sword, dividing heart and soul all that that's not referring to the word the scripture that's referring to the Jesus the word the world Maybe the Rema what the word Jesus speaks, but yeah I I think the point you're making what are we seeking how we seeking to draw close and follow Jesus to hear his voice in which case we can hear him speak through the scripture and directly or we can pick the phone in which case we may not be hearing But we may be pulling out a scripture

You
Interesting there's a word that I use that you didn't and I'm curious if that was deliberate or accidental

Robby Butler
Well, not conscious anyway

You
Yeah, but can you can you can you guess what the word was?

Robby Butler
I don't know. Nothing comes to mind.

You
Yeah, cause what I said was because you heard me say you're seeking Jesus a relationship with him you heard that part and you heard the bad about trying to control Jesus the thing you didn't hear

Robby Butler
But

You
interestingly enough is that what I was contrasting seeking relationship with Jesus, it was seeking knowledge in order to control him

Robby Butler
Great relationship technology

You
You know, and this is the thing I'm still in process on very much which is I think why I have this

Robby Butler
Her

You
allergy to Your memorization classes and your request so can we do a deep dive on the Greek language cause that feels like trying to

Robby Butler
Right

You
acquire knowledge

Robby Butler
Yeah, OK

You
And it's not that acquiring knowledge is wrong, but is extraordinarily dangerous and it has been in my life because of this

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
idolization of knowledge if only we knew more, then we would be more righteous and closer to God

Robby Butler
Right, right?

You
And I certainly there are thing but the way I'm sort of squaring the circle now which is not perfect is that what matters is what we believe about God And if you don't know something about God, it's very hard to believe it But it's also very dangerous to know things that you don't believe right like I know that God is good. I don't know that I am valuable in a site. I'm not sure if I believe that. And

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah exactly

You
and and the real problem is, what do I believe about God?

Robby Butler
Right

You
And Because that creates a relational connection

Robby Butler
Hello

You
Or what I know about God very easily create relational distance

Robby Butler
Separation

You
Yeah, so anyway That's a yeah should we just do the clothes? Is there anything we need to anything that's left inside or anything that we need to forgive?

Robby Butler
Beautiful I just repeat so knowledge to control and relationship to what

You
Connect

Robby Butler
Really Yeah Close up

You
Heart

Robby Butler
I didn't have anything further to the difference

You
Yeah, I got to pray and thank God for the teachers who drilled me in scripture and knowledge and wisdom because that was all they had to give or the most they knew how to give, and I want to forgive them for the ways that they and their weakness and brokenness and limitations and cultural context You know, they genuinely wanted to pass on the relationship they had with Jesus, but they were trapped by the cultural forms that they lose and that they were allowed to use and I know that's still true today and Lord the way that I Can break this yoke is by acknowledging that I have the same problem that I see a relationship with God that I want to invite them into and I feel trapped by the cultural forms and the knowledge I have As a mechanism and God, I try out for the grace to connect with you more deeply and to love them more deeply and see that as the real challenge of the phrase of loving someone so much you pray for them with tears as the most powerful way to brain change rather than trying to formulate arguments or circumstances where I can explain things to people And so Lord, I just pray for the grace to step into this world of connection and let go of the first for knowledge that is apart from you in Jesus am I pray amen

Robby Butler
Yeah, about you thanks for setting up pick up

You
Yeah, thank you God bless bye