Robby Butler
Good morning how are you?

You
Good selection my first morning free in like two months. I don't have any meetings until 9

Robby Butler
Wow

You
AM but usually have meetings that's like 6 AM or 7 AM so

Robby Butler

You
Good day to prompt me

Robby Butler
Yeah, I guess it was the Lord. I just came to mine repeatedly as I'm on my watch and die. Maybe I can give a call

You
Great, how are you doing?

Robby Butler
Well, I think I get my cardiology check up yesterday on the recent

You
Oh yeah

Robby Butler
Diagnose send Nothing to see here a lot of people have a fib will check back in the air. That was good. I had a stress test in between I did when it said I'm in great shape for my age so yeah, that's all good. I am very very pains different parts of my body seem to come and go mostly just continued to continue to move like one thing I've changed a few months ago with the February switched to a standing desk, so I'm not stand not sitting so much finding

You
Oh yeah

Robby Butler
that time just being vertical, most of the day is making it helping me feel better so give me better

You
Yeah, I just want more interesting things about the Apple Watch I guess status game for like a better term and that it really rewards you for standing up

Robby Butler
OK

You
Which is not a thing that released Anyway

Robby Butler
I read

You
How's your how's your sorry?

Robby Butler
a few budget Just put my point on that record a few years ago read about shooting as one of the deadliest activities just when you sit all the time

You
Yes

Robby Butler
since you got for a while, but I was in good enough help I didn't see a difference in just fell back into the old patterns, but I think just being up at moving is such an important part of health To get a reminder OK back to

You
Yeah man, well I guess this we're on this right that you know we always talk about exercise as a thing but I think various studies are simply different people. I suggested that actually just walking you know not doing any vigorous exercise is

Robby Butler
Right

You
possibly the healthiest thing that you can do. Because one you can do it a lot

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
longer, and it causes less

Robby Butler
Right

You
damage on other parts of the body

Robby Butler
Yeah, and just you know being up and moving and whatever for some of the reading out done suggest that particularly I'm getting up and moving for 10 minutes after meals is particularly

You
Right

Robby Butler
straight for avoiding glucose spikes and all that

You
Yes, but literally, we are both just going for a walk so let's just preach

Robby Butler
Cell

You
practicing

Robby Butler
Yeah, I'm good Beautiful time, Washington with a light rain Rain and snow weeks It's very good for the land gas

You
Speaking of preaching, which you practice how's your accidental sabbatical going?

Robby Butler
I am great and I came across that theological discussion a few days ago that I really wanted to talk about that relates to sabbatical but first time maybe we should hear whatever is going on with you if you don't have something large is it mine feels revolutionary for me

You
Yes Yeah, nothing large in this question of sabbatical and what is an easy yoke has been subbing up this morning so it's not a bad

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
Segway

Robby Butler
Well So I was just thinking over a series of Providence is that have led me to unawareness of a branch of science that I hadn't before and in many science periods where an existing paradigm is dominant but outmoded by growing understanding that out right whether it's Volution or whatever so Poorer last hundred years and more science has looked at the production of food plants based on the reject reductionist analysis of the individual components and in particular World War II ended at all the Musicians factories have nothing to do with their chemicals. They turns to the army community and these will benefit your crops. You know they'll make them grow bigger faster, or. And that's led to increasing Artificial input to the growing process However, in 1938 first article I'm listening to not was published waiting out that is not simply a matter of connecting with our elements in the soil, but there's a whole living community Bacteria fungi, nematode that take the minerals in the soil and exchange them for secretions from the roots and I've never been aware that the roots get put something into the soil. I mean, I know that like

You
Email

Robby Butler
nitrogen, but that's part of that reduction with Marla. But this whole idea of a thriving community and ecosystem in the soil and the soil And theologically the people who are discussing this, they're saying, we spiritualized all the references to land in the Bible, as if God doesn't care about that. He only cares about people, but his whole creation is good and God created the Earth. To yield it's bounty when we treated the intended, but we instead of working with nature and observing how he handles the land and create abundance like the US experienced we had 12 feet deep topsoil when bison roam from coast to coast before the European game When Lewis and Clark went west the eastern part of the bison had already been eliminated so that area was different and the experience in the west was new with them, but before the whole place was like that they get Africa for wild church, Rome, the land and It's part of this beautiful ecosystem and God has where The the Rolling animals and the grass lands like the gardener sends the Grapevine from John 15 where the branches are fruitful he prunes so they may bear more fruit in the grasslands If they're not overrated or underground, they're more fruit than if they're just let life out so But going back even further in the scripture Genesis one God gives the command twice where he says it's actually the blessing. God bless him and said, be fruitful and multiply the second time he said that to human. And he added still here and cultivated attempts to it and we know some people take that as we're free to do to manipulate the land for do you know?

You
Dominic

Robby Butler
Without and so we have all over the world. We have a farming model that degrades so and we prop it up as we're making it sick by the way we're pretending, and then we're trying to pop it up with artificial input fertilizers and herbicide pesticide fungicide. But there's a fairly large network of farmers scale that are discovering that If you Timberland in a way that mimics the Seasonal or it's even better The way Migrated when they were simply managed to buy both packs and hunger was sporadic. It wasn't regular. It was just you know that. Chaotic as the term

You
Nomadic maybe

Robby Butler
Chaotic you better capture it wasn't predictable. It wasn't even even a migrating

You
Sarcastic OK, yeah

Robby Butler
animals. What was the word?

You
Sarcastic Patica, slightly more of a negative majority term it's just

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah sure but this is the way that is there exploring us so you know the culture is a thing as well as I've talked about that, but this goes beyond that two of you of God's

You
Culture yeah, it's a thing

Robby Butler
beautiful design nature and how is managers we can bring forth that fruit in abundance and a key element Back out a three podcast focus one on rest and this idea of rest and tell God not only Demand the rest for humans but also for the fields and the animals and that we begin spiritualize that but that in there as they're working with farms all over the world consulting, and on their own farms, you're saying that when you allow rest of the land And you manage animals in a way that way nature did before we got involved that you see unrested and abundance they're able to see typically four times as many animals said well from the same land as when you're using the conventional equipment which can involve filling or hanging or continuous grazing where animals will eat their favorite thing to death it'll die and the rest of the plants will Continue to develop so that you end up with the things going down degrading quality faster So the idea of rest and then going back to Genesis, I think asking conjuring question with the Lord this morning Is when God said I will bless you animation will be blessed Can we just can we separate our isolate that idea blessing from the idea of multiplying people which is their multiple times for the word bus and Denis one and then the thought from John 15 If not the way to be fruitful and multiply to buy. I just listened this morning through the recording of the book club from Tyler Tyson fashion on the receipt community Jamie's book, living, fearless, and that beautiful conversation, but yeah, focuses on a bit. No, really rough guy. The coach figure a label that says Jamie you know you buy with me then you learn to be a top something along those lines and it was.

You
Write his training officer, yeah

Robby Butler
It was just a decision to buy decide to buy, and then Discover and learn what that means you don't learn to buy to choose to buy and the idea Since we got me this morning, you know you The right for me drifted from my early 20s. I'm just trusting and receiving from the Lord. Allowing that thing to work out to trying to push for things to happen as quickly as possible, the day of the Lord, the second three that makes it most of the time because the days are these things that saved me and trying to make things happen I'm feeling responsible to make things happen or trying to manipulate things to happen so I regain that since I had early that I can rest like I was seeing earlier about this. You recall that in my when I was it when I first started in the ministry I said God if you're that real as Hudson Taylor George Mueller described so you can provide without me asking or manipulating acting I want to know that I don't wanna live wondering about that. And so over the last year and a half you've noticed my relatively monthly communication dropped Maybe annual and I have Felt this compressor inside I need to communicate or else now people who is interested there our support gonna dry up or whatever but I also have either this morning but you know God provided for me before and I really wanna wait for you to leave so I'm in posture in the sabbatical just trying to do what the Lord is showing me and trusting that he's gonna work out the results Focusing on my troubled marriage in the relationship, same relationship in the house and all of that has been as I Stopped innocence working as I've turned to rest those things seem to be recovering just like the Earth covers when we allow it to rest and just add one more other thought from the science I started off with the beginning Says that the simple active filling tears up the microsomes fungus that are so essential in taking and keeping the bacteria balance and nourishing the roots and exchanging the nutrients in the soil so we end up with heated soil all over that's just waiting for a rest. Where the micros over guy and. Rebuild and nourish the ground in the ground, make it burnt, bounty the compliment when we degrade the soil, so the micro fungi along with the root systems and the microbes and worms that flourish when we don't disturb the oil The alternative what we see in the great soil, those the healthy soil drinks freely the rain falls on it. There's something called an infiltration rate, which is the rate at which land will absorb water. And a spa a field it's firm conventionally. We often observe half an hour an inch per hour rain and everything else

You
Right

Robby Butler
runs off. Land that is healthy that has been regenerated or I'm referring to Can drink 30 in./ h or more and Huge track of land reduce them from 30 inches absorbing capacity to half an inch then you create all kinds of climate disaster like flooding in Texas And the scripture talks about the land spewing you out because you didn't allow rest and I think in a very practical way in the climate change in climate, disasters or experiencing, may be related to the way that we have mistreated the land that got us with Stewart So there's all kinds of dimension That's enough to stop and interact over

You
Yeah Maybe we should just stop and ask Jesus what where Yeah, let's just let's do that Do you wanna just press in?

Robby Butler
Sure Loving father, thank you that you created and gave us all things for food and you blessed the Earth at each stage of your creation your amazing incredible design that were still scratching the surface on understanding how the assistance function together and I just I still see what happens when we with hold and Individual ingredients thank you for your spirit your love the whole cosmos not just humanity that you seem to redeem you that the whole creation is morning For the sons of God to be revealed asked

You
G

Robby Butler
You to give us wisdom inside the water What it means for the sons are going to be revealed that race depending debating for the land the way you design as well as in our in the morning are disconnected or spiritual access Our life power, how you want us to rest and buy the year to barefoot to multiply as a heavy responsibility that is a natural gross of resting in abiding in you So what do you want us to know? How do you want to stay or not about your things I've been sensing and hearing learning.

You
OK, I think I'm ready

Robby Butler
OK, I didn't hear anything more said yet Go for it

You
So I think the Phrase of my hand is free with your practicing so I'm practicing abiding so and trying to

Robby Butler
Ha ha

You
abiding all the things you said all the things and In the past, I have felt a strong tension I think I still feel slightly weaker between Just Being like the soil and just soaking in whatever you're saying because I feel like one thing is, I feel like that was a fairly extended model along And sometimes I feel like the soil that I can take the first half inch edit and the rest of it just runs off right

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
so what does it mean to abide in that? And So I thought maybe a good first thing for me to do was just to make sure you feel hurt because I feel like a lot. This has been bottled up and you've been looking for a place to talk about it.

Robby Butler
I have very

You
Sorry

Robby Butler
Very accurate yes, your perception

You
Yeah, I think I have an intellectual need to analyze it but it's at least as much as emotional. Need to be validated.

Robby Butler
Yeah, I know I don't even need to agree to agree. I just am eager for people that I can know you came to mine. We talked about the sensor. We're best friends even during season one we finally talk

You
Yeah

Robby Butler
tonight. And eager to try to start unpacking I don't feel like we need to get any agreement or conclusion or anything better to share with you. I have.

You
Yes, right, but I think Thursday

Robby Butler
Excitement that I need to share with you I'm not sure what you mean by that I just yeah you're not even listening without the interruption has just a good sense of validation in fact

You
Yeah, and this is a sorry go ahead

Robby Butler
In Well, and your responsive being like the land that can drink half an inch not the full 30 inch of what I shared you know that that really capture I think that really gave me a deep sense of validation and a new thought in terms of how I relate to other like my wife, I get half an inch and she says stop

You
Yeah Yeah So even just a reframe of this as a gets back to the idea of when we look at Even the term agriculture But she know the The let's go the word extractive

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
Quite the right word, but it's only right direction when you look at a full attractive point of view, the only part of the plant that matters is a little like a flex say wheat is a little heads on top right look the actual pieces of

Robby Butler
Ha ha

You
brain and even there, it's all the it's actually the stuff that's after it's with Milton process stuff the thing that you actually care

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
about

Robby Butler
Right

You
And the rest of the seed, the rest of the plant the rest of the roof system the soil, the results the microbes everything like that feels like waste

Robby Butler
Yep, yep

You
Right and I guess the oldest ultimate is probably sugarcane You know which at least has it as it's the stock that's valuable but even that was you know Artificial and natural selection you know over the generations, have given us wheat instead of grass right and all these things and Cell That was interesting. Is that there is a You know what I heard like there is intellectual idea around regenerative agriculture for lack of a better term of honoring the entire ecosystems and seeking to abide in the natural harmony of things

Robby Butler
I can suggest the term redemptive agriculture Greyson over regenerative regenerative use more broadly

You
There's

Robby Butler
and peace

You
a way that yet so let me just start with the term generative because I definitely agreed that there's something redemption, but I'm not sure. I understand what that is

Robby Butler
OK Yeah

You
yet. OK, and so there's this honoring the whole ecosystem and so the Really maybe re- synchronizing the natural order if that's a if that's the right

Robby Butler
Sure

You
term

Robby Butler
But I'd want a singer so generative, I think in the broad sense it simply seeking Improved soils, rather degraded soul, but it often operates without an understanding of the underlying ecosystem even per culture all the pro culture that I studied didn't bring me awareness of what's going on below the ground that we need to care for

You
Right so there's a something OK so let's let's let's let's let's let me just put a pin in that right so there's

Robby Butler
Sure

You
something beyond beyond regenerative agriculture. Let's just use that as a placeholder. And then in parallel, there's the spiritual journey you've been out of moving in with a bad hole and just curious phenomenon that you started from a place of abiding and trusting, and then you somehow ended up in a place of

Robby Butler
Right

You
thriving

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
And now you're trying to recover this way of abiding

Robby Butler
Right

You
And you know those things that have happened, psychologically, and financially that have enabled this Abiding in this season and you're seeing God restoring and renewing things that God is doing The third thing and this is where I'm trying to figure out how this all fits together Maybe it's just better to confess this rather than is that you know there's a the parts that some parts are easy to absorb and just you know like to hear the story here what you're feeling here with you making the parts that are hard harder for me to absorb Is when I feel like there's a conflictual edge? Right is that there's and Again, it's not a value judgment. It's just an observation right either on what you're saying or what I'm feeling. These are just is is the. What I perceive Is a is that this is a critique or this part of the critique it's like everyone's doing this wrong you know

Robby Butler
No

You
and this is the right way to be doing it

Robby Butler
Great

You
And that's Hard for me to digest or

Robby Butler
OK

You
what's the word infiltrate what's the

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah

You
infiltration is a good word right? That is the word of rain coming in, but you know

Robby Butler
Right

You
we generally we don't like to be infiltrated.

Robby Butler
Right

You
Right and that's ego and I'll acknowledge that as ego

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
But you know that cuts both ways Right that my ego tends to react when I feel like someone else's ego is infiltrating

Robby Butler
Can you hold one minute my daughter has a question OK I'm back

You
Yeah, and I think the There's a fractal tension here between striving and abiding And one of the ironies or the mirrors here is that You know it's easier to abide in our current way of thinking whatever it is and if you want and this is actually very I think The one thing I didn't mention that has been deeply on my mind which I didn't bring up because I wasn't sure how to get the Segway in here and the cultural context is K-pop demon hunters which is a Netflix, animated movie, Boulter and K-pop music and I suspect none of those things are in your cultural context very often

Robby Butler
Before we go deep into that, I'm interested all that but that the edge you talked about with the censor critique. I was just a pain in the neck cause I'd like to is. There never a place for critique or is it helpful to identify practices that are unhelpful versus? It's helpful in that I know I am with in-home relationships, relationships and generally, I want to find the loving way to carry people forward without them feeling which means to criticize so just to register that's a very.

You
This is the subway I was going to write so

Robby Butler
Important

You
but yeah first we just found it my assumption that Netflix pop And animated movies are not a significant part of your cultural context

Robby Butler
Yeah, we do Amazon prime

You
OK, OK so I look at the

Robby Butler
Netflix

You
And the soap was fascinating about the movie K-pop Demon hunters is it was the best Articulation of the tension between the relationship between evil law, steam, and grace that I've seen And The the Connection all of this is let's call it. Innocence right is that prior to

Robby Butler
Ha ha

You
humans in however an evolutionary or a biblical view prior to to human fall the world was not necessarily state of grace, but at least state of innocence.

Robby Butler
OK

You
Right and something happened will be vague out for now And this has led to a world of striving And The challenge Is and it's easier to see all the toxicities that result from this world is striving Right and this is the

Robby Butler
Scarce related

You
question as we have a opportunity and a command to abide Right and the thing is and this is the paradox and this is actually you know come up in several contacts is that if we want to restore abiding In practice that seems to require some kind of striving And that striving Appears to generate the same kind of toxicities as this driving, we're trying to undo

Robby Butler
I make area for that rest. There's a Paradise.

You
Right yeah there's there's a paradox there right and you know yeah like you know you and I both have our share of dominant paradigm that we find deeply offensive and frustrating and counter to the thing that God wants, but our efforts to confront those and help people get free of those often More heat and light Right and this is the thing writers is in is and phrase that I found most of the things you shared about. What does it mean for the sons of God to be revealed right and what does it mean to be

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
redemptive rather than merely restorative? Right because there is a like a another pop culture to reference I mean anything to you is in avengers endgame they have this world we're half the human population disappeared and someone as well on the plus side you see whale swimming up the Hudson River Because you know, humanity and civilization has kind of caved in Right and you can look at that and you know they're there are people who are like anti-natal lists and literally you know anti- humanist who think that human is the worst thing that ever happened to planet earth and if we would just get rid of all the humans the Earth would heal itself and that would be a better situation that many but you know there is people who's Ideology tends in that direction and there are a few people who take that all the way and you know there is a I mean of Jesus apparently God felt that way during the time and now I get us like we should just get rid of all these humans and start over but you chose not to just to save Noah and all that and so but there is tension and I think maybe that's probably a good place to place the tension is that because this was kind of a question I had is Where is the what is the goal of restoration and how is that difference in the goal of redemption? And it feels like understanding that might be key to resolving this paradox

Robby Butler
One framing would be the foundational world view that underline if you believe that the art creation was created, resigned by designer creator to function in a particular way And you seeking to live in Harmony with that and follow and be part of this kingdom that he created cosmos versus reject that idea ignore that idea, and are simply trying to manage the resources for optimum flourishing in an abstract sense without reference To relationship without reference and relationship to a creator

You
OK, let me just let

Robby Butler
The generator great

You
me let me just capture what you said so one possible dichotomy Is between viewing the universe as a As a created thing Assemble economies it's probably worth teasing apart to figure out which one you emphasizing and how they relate to each other, but is Because there's universe created versus just there there's viewing it as created by a good creator you know as a person in different one there's viewing it as created by a relational creator who wants to Engage with us

Robby Butler
If he's given a stewardship that I didn't mention about it

You
A stewardship yeah yeah, and that there is a sense of both accountability and relationship implied by that word stewardship And then there's the sorry my dog wants to say hi is

Robby Butler
Sure

You
Frolic He loves meeting people and he's very sad during the summer cause nobody's here so Yeah He's also I'm sure it'll be back soon as well. The students all right thank you. Have a good day. The fountain in the center of the not a bad metaphor we're at the fountain in the center of Santa Clara university and it's empty again it was empty for several years during the drought and Covid and everything but it's been full ever since in our my labrador who's a water dog it always wants to come and drink and if she if I let him jump in and wait around but today it's

Robby Butler
Stop

You
dry and I guess the three guys and safety vest are probably construction workers or doing maintenance on It

Robby Butler
Right

You
So when we say that the world was created good

Robby Butler
Ha ha

You
I think this is the this is one of tensions in Christian theology that I don't fully understand Which is and it's the technical term for the odyssey like why is there evil in the world? And it gets right back to the cross was the cross intended and if so, does that mean it was a good thing or was it the greatest evil humanity of a perpetrated? Is it both? And it feels like that, but whatever answer we had that we're seeking about how do we redeem our families? How do we? And it is restore even the right term are we trying to restore our relationship with God or is the thing that we're trying to do different and it requires I mean, it's certainly possible to say that Jesus was abiding with God and disseminate, but I think it's equally fair to say that he was striving in Gethsemane

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
And

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
Maybe I think the thoughts in my head is the difference between restoration and redemption is that it also Honors striving Of a particular kind as essential to a deeper level of abiding

Robby Butler
Find myself driving to grass them Science of redemptive soil, biology and grazing integration of livestock with growing crops And with a sense of abiding in Jesus says I'm doing a sense of being lead I was reflecting, just before you called on the series of unusual events that led me to misunderstanding him I've in our decades ago, learned about the healing role and vitamin C as an alternative to many of that common popular medical interventions and was reading online and Tim Ross an event in Central Oregon at a dairy farm, but somebody who had written something I'd buy that really tell me how he was using vitamin C on the farm and place of all the pharmaceuticals that are common and seeing extraordinary results and seeing this event At a time when things were pretty street at home I had a sense of I should go and send this event to meet a guy behind it and I did without engaging Jackie trying to agreement because of the level of stream and with Jackie's natural sensitivity she would've said no doesn't make sense. I wouldn't. I can't imagine if we haven't been in broken communication that I would've gotten. And he introduced me to the idea several things one is the micro biome inside I got, and the micro biome in soil, which is improved rather degraded when we eliminate the pharmaceutical pesticides besides, but I didn't understand the implications of the so micro I'm here. I learned about the relevant to the soil, micro bar to the human bike by myself, but not about to the soil, micro biome to plant health to the increased of nutritional plants to the human health that I recently. True casual reference that he made or actually a podcast that he was on I learned about cultured in the whole idea that when we support nature and grow food, the way nature dance rather fighting nature, there's a president and unlimited abundance and then All this prepared farmer friends that talked about we read about burying logs in the ground in his field, dry out summer because the carbon in the logs is there will hold moisture, which would nurse the grass and asked about he was pondering Alternative forage that he could grow in the fields that would stay green during the summer with deeper roots, and that lingering question for several years is what often recently packed with another Derrick Farmer to discover that this thread that I'm now on Understanding the soil, Microbiome and health the water retention we talk about water infiltration expect water retention in regenerated soil, could be tenfold more. We can hold 10 pounds as much water. It's not just how quickly I can go in, but it will routine 10 times or more as much moisture through the dry. So far she practicing that are not experiencing grout when all the neighbors are experiencing that. But anyway, this is the sense of being lead and yes, driving to understand what I've been led into and abiding genius and I do all that January not sure enjoyable Since discovery one of the other observations I think from Jamie Jamie is that everything is a process maturing a process and where where we never arrive but we're continuing to learn bro and back as much like that now it's 66 as I did major 20 or younger Oh, one other thing I'll throw in before that That discussion between two people about the theology of the land and how God cares about the land and the animals special and the micro biome under the soil as much as not as much as but as well as humans where we can just focus on this concerned about humans one of off Was that we have no idea of the abundance the creation is also below, and if we take seriously, God's commands to fill your to multiply fill your We made out of scratch service here ass search and I based on what I understand I don't think there's any I have no reasonable question that but you could easily support 100000,000,000 people and more and that this idea that is gonna strain our if if our farm, I mean it's true if our farming degrade soil then yes we're running driving off a cliff, but if regenerative redemptive agriculture becomes the norm and I see things that are happening A very positive move in this direction that and it's far more profitable for farmers market for healthier that and this becomes a global thing. The other additional thought hopefully I'll run additional but then in mission global mission work in blessing the nations missionaries brought medicine and education and science, and this awareness of how to regenerative farm and new soil so that there is abundance team that's like something that could be integral to blessing, particularly the remaining people groups that have felt attacked by Christianity Love, served by Jesus Stop there

You
OK, let's give the floor back to Jesus and try to listen to him about what he's trying to say to us and what he wants us to know and what he would like us to do

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
I'm not sure if I'm ready, but I might be

Robby Butler
OK

You
Where are you at?

Robby Butler
I just need to say something that my son quickly

You
Church

Robby Butler
Otherwise Fuck back

You
A question I had was what emotion When you when you reflect on this Revolution and how we think about Our relation to the national world one

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
You know what is the emotion you have?

Robby Butler
Father, when you ask the question, I started asking a question the first can mine with joy and hope

You
Yeah

Robby Butler
And participation Yeah, I guess those captures are pretty well

You
And what are those emotions about?

Robby Butler
Well, the next thought was a sense of better, knowing God's heart and being able to relate to him in a deeper way around what he cares about In the fullness of what he cares about, not that he cares about humans less than I thought, but that he cares about the natural order more than I reflected on her, interactive with him about

You
What do you think God cares about most?

Robby Butler
My reaction is relationship with people I think I would like to think about that before I get recorded on a podcast

You
Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Robby Butler
Yeah, I think yeah Cares about or maybe I'll think on the podcast, I think he cares about craving Family That is mature and reflecting, with nature with glory in the kingdom of God and the family business Please get called out once The revelation of the sons of God for the redemption restoration of creation

You
OK and what so you know that's reasonable? I know when I'm holding you into this as part of the permanent record doesn't mean it's you know that there's lots of room for nuance and re- interpretation and refinement and even revision as we understand more deeply what do you think it means sorry

Robby Butler
Yeah, I'm curious how you were mysterious. You would answer a question with a kitten.

You
I'll ask one more and then I will answer it is what do you think? It means to be a son of God

Robby Butler
Well, that's the question that's running around my mind this morning and what is the revelation of the sons of God my initial thinking is that it's just stepping into the fullness of the stewardship that he designed us for which includes how we would like to him and we were like we would like to ourselves are your rights to others and how we relate to the natural order and if we leave out the relating to the natural order and just focus on the first three That we haven't entered the fullness of the revelation of the sons of God in that initial commission for stewardship to fail to do it

You
Right OK good. Let me just take a moment and then I will answer your question.

Robby Butler
Right

You
Oh my short answer is that God wanted a universe and wants a universe or Christ is the first born among many brothers and sisters Relate to the father, the son, the spirit, one another and the whole universe As he and the son and the spirit related to each other OK And the The intuition that I think I share is that we we we skip we we we implicitly recognize this But we sin or at least air when we skip steps And By My current best understanding Of the failure mode that is the thing that I find alienating and that I can identify with so it's also counter alienating is that I see an

Robby Butler
Hello

You
idea the idea seems beautiful and perfect and I just want everyone to get on board with the idea and everything would be so awesome if they did Right, but that the the arc as I understand it is God you know it had this idea from all eternity And he had to go through a fairly painful process of I'm posting thousands of years of human history before the

Robby Butler
No

You
soil was ready to receive Christ Right and that

Robby Butler
Yup

You
Christ had to take this beautiful idea, forget it completely and be born as a baby into this culture Grow up, inhaling all those layers of culture And I at least read you know his tension with a sirenian woman as legit and certainly his tension with Peter is legit and that he had to then not just he had to Incarnate into all of that messiness and

Robby Butler
Yes

You
Then Transcend it In a fairly gruesome cycle of abandonment, crucifixion, burial, resurrection, and then ascension,

Robby Butler
Falling into the ground and burn

You
yeah and the The thing that I take out of that is that once I have a big idea, I cannot drag people with me into that idea I must incarnate into their reality for getting even the idea itself In my effort to empathize with those who don't hold it And then trust the spirit to re- awaken it at the right time So that it can bear fruit in that soil

Robby Butler
Just a few days ago, I am on YouTube in The dream me to watch it about how ideas spread through not arguing with the people you disagree with, but finding their 2 % adapter that will explore an idea with you and let that run its course. That's my poor summary of

You
Rips

Robby Butler
idea, but

You
What's up yeah let me tell you how we do that in the high-tech world There's the technical term is crossing the chasm booked by Jeffrey in that there's people who liked no ideas for the sake of new ideas and when we are incubating an idea, it is absolutely vital that we find these people, but that's really for our

Robby Butler
Right

You
site to help us validate refine right and the The hard part and we are literally going through this right now as a company for the last year we've been struggling with this is that and we've been around for 10 years, which is insane for a free pre-series a startup That we are, you know it is that we've been. We can finally hit market for three years ago and we've been working with these early adopters the 2% to actually tear at our open to new things and have that the intellectual capacity to absorb new light and play with new ideas. Right and the thing that we are struggling with Many practical levels is we have what we think is a clear idea of what we want Learning how to actually engage people where they are so that they embrace the idea this is the detention I was feeling earlier is that at one level I want to infiltrate this new idea into the existing soil

Robby Butler
OK

You
Right the problem is and I think this is the phrase that come to my head is is missionary zeal is that part of the reason I want to do that is my own ego not self You know, self emptying other centered, unconditional love and the

Robby Butler
Rap

You
extent, and my motivation is ego. Their ego will resist and resent that.

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
And so, and and the thing that's hard this is the thing I had with our friend Tyson a month or so ago the realization that he asked the question why is it that you hesitate when God asked you to do something? And I said well, it's what makes you pause I think was his and I said well. What makes me the fear that I will lose what is most precious to me And including my relationship with God, the very things that I find Life giving and joyful and enlightened

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
and this to me is price to Gethsemane. It's Abraham and Isaac. It's Peter when Jesus said he was gonna be dead and buried you know. And the the the idea that if this is, if we won is that is, it is the process of incarnation and crucifixion Which you know is kind of I think the pointer making about the soil rise when there's a natural

Robby Butler
No

You
Succession I guess that's right word I'm not sure you know between you know the generations the ecosystems the things dying off you know even population is dying off. These are all necessary aspects. And the The invitation I think is to Learn how to practice Practice The thing that we want people to understand Until they see it and then if they feel it and see it and experience it viscerally, then giving them the words for what we care about Makes sense right is that you can't Pour water on you know old grout, and expect it to You are on hard ground expected to be absorbed right and

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
having a safe space To you know, I guess I guess the first thing is that that's why you have a sister and you have a hard shell that you can pour stuff into and you can at least protect the water and that's nice, but that is the opposite of growing something And The yeah

Robby Butler
I asked if you're up yet that

You
But I think I think I think the thing is the only thing that really creates good soils. I understand it is many cycles of life and death.

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah

You
And so I think that's the the The thing that I believe is the under utilized underappreciated Phase of Christ likeness

Robby Butler
Right

You
Is learning how to take it deny yourself take your cross daily and follow Jesus all the way through each phase of the cycle in a way

Robby Butler
Right

You
that other people can see is worth it And see how it's done and Get excited about following

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
And then and then and then after that, and this is the thing that kills me is that I can only give people information after I'm no longer excited about giving them information

Robby Butler
OK

You
Because I am because I've shifted I'm not a saw, but at least I know what it looks like. I have shifted to be exciting about what they will receive rather than what I give.

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah

You
Which is a subtle, but surprisingly difficult to make

Robby Butler
Yeah, so you know this moment after accept that Jackie Feel And unprepared to infiltrate more than you know a little bit of what I'm thinking about so deeply you think that there are three free baskets of what we perceive from Jamie and Donna wind ship that come to mine we're talking about this one is the scarcity versus abundance concept or mindset the world The idea that God in his good creation has created extraordinary abundance for what we can think or imagine at this stage because all of our practical experience is with the graded soil in the scar mindset, and the idea of what the world would be like simply if we replaced a large measure of Decorative plants with productive food burn plants Arlene landscapes were edible as just attractive that carry along way to solving world hunter Jim, Dale, and follower going that far but The farming, but is this the primary the key with these guys are making that I'm studying is that adaptive multi paddock grazing that replicate the forage of wild purge restores the landscape with liberation of Species of plants and insects and wild birds They talking about farms back to 150 variations of native wild birds and the Audubon society has recognized the benefit of this where they have been opposed to Grayson now they're supportive the best adapter at grazing in this restoration of either like state the landscape that's possible Anyway, the idea of abundance, the second concept from Jamie Lewis, casting scene and seeing where fruit so mentioning for me, I think I'm in a stage of mental needs ideas and finding who in my circles is interested in following up with them not to try best people into you need to be you know About this along with me, my wife, but that cast see where they a big group and grow who else is interested I think this podcast in particular I'd like to share it with share it with my whole prayer team Prompting to do that to do that I think there was a third thing but I lost track of the first two so I'll stop there

You
OK, I feel like what I said, bounce off of you and ran off

Robby Butler
So let me try that to validate so you expressed, I think a concern about me or maybe a general concern about the tendency of people to evangelized or urge people to Capture what we want to get out rather than being to what they're prepared Is that the key is now marginal to what you were

You
I mean, that's that what that is a that was the punchline

Robby Butler
OK

You
I'm not sure. I also tried to answer a question you asked, and I'm not sure if you remember the question you asked.

Robby Butler
What is this about the sons of God or about what God cares about?

You
Less Yeah Yes, that was the question and do you remember my answer?

Robby Butler
Not in detail, I think it I didn't I didn't capture the difference between, but you said than what I was speaking about the relationships with God, myself, others, and the creation that was the framework that I was listening to it from Noah

You
So that's fine so let's just acknowledge that I was trying to share my truth and it bounced off your soil

Robby Butler
OK, all right

You
Right

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
No judgment, just an acknowledgment and this is the

Robby Butler
OK

You
thing that I wonder about

Robby Butler
Ha ha

You
Is My understanding is that for Jamie Winship, the two fundamental world views are not scarcity versus abundance

Robby Butler
Connection

You
Exactly And the it is a proof that we want to acknowledge, and I called this

Robby Butler
Good night

You
letter from adolescence where we want to

Robby Butler
Thanks

You
disconnect from our community of origin in order to discover our own truth And it's a really powerful and important. I honor it deeply OK but I just wanna own the fact that it's very narcissistic. Right it's like this is what I want. This is what I believe. I want to feel good about myself. I wanna feel like these truths that I have been given are being honored and I wanna acknowledge that that is a thing that matters and that's an important phase OK

Robby Butler
OK

You
The danger There's two dangers right one is that we? Demonize that and we don't great spaces for people to explore their own truth

Robby Butler
OK

You
OK But the other danger Is we and you know it and there is you know that we had a lecture when my daughter started high school or a little talk but they said you know they shift from who am I to who is my friend who's my friend group that I have lunch with right becomes the most vital question in freshman year, especially in the first you know day week right and If that's the phase, you're in I want to honor that. OK you've got this idea. It's really impacting you. You really wanna try to find the other early adopters were open to this idea and engage with that. The Without a value judgment, it hurts that you ask a question and you don't remember my answer You know, and This is the The vibe I get Is that you are more excited about our abstract relationship to the soil than your imminent relationship with me And I can acknowledge that a face you're going through and I'm OK being hurt. I don't resent that but it is sad.

Robby Butler
OK

You
And I can't help but wonder That maybe like what if the reason God gave you this whole revelation about the microbial enzymatic deep visceral earthy relationships of plants Is not so you can have some great intellectual discussions with a community of like-minded peers about what this all means and how this is gonna save the world, but so that you get

Robby Butler
Right

You
inspired To delve deep into the deep, painful, messy crappy microbial Of relationship with yourself and others

Robby Butler
No

You
Maybe I'll just hope that is a wonder and we can

Robby Butler
Area

You
Spray it out

Robby Butler
You say yeah that you know you have this way of concluding that I hadn't memorized but is there anything, sir? We need to revisit or anything from the conversation

You
The tongue closes is taking asked Jesus and our heart is there anything that needed to be said that hasn't been said and then the second part is there anything that needs to be

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
forgiven?

Robby Butler
Yeah, so it keeps that I'd like to take a little more time with that we typically do and lighter pain that you just been honest with them I'd like to certainly learn what I can Forgive me

You
OK, the Sure, let's just take a moment and then whenever you're ready, let me know you wanna share

Robby Butler
Yeah, well I like my head. I'd really like to maybe a second chance to understand what I didn't infiltrate before about your answer the question about what God cares about most. I was busy teenager reflect on the question of what I think. God cares about most and I don't know. How to learn to turn that off in the middle of the conversation, but that may be and I'm not sure that's the right solution to the experience you had That's what went through my head do you wanna give me a second chance? I was already thinking before we got that far that I want to listen back through the recording so I can catch the train

You
Yeah, but it feels like probably I have to get you on with my day and I think this is for all. I forgive you. I'm not holding onto this word. I'm not resentful about it. It's just it's a sadness and a wonder.

Robby Butler
Yeah, yeah

You
You know, and you know we don't recording you can actually listen to it and you know that might give you the answer And you know, I feel like this is a Conversation worth teeing up right

Robby Butler
Right

You
is And maybe even doing it with scripture maybe I'm doing on a zoom call about what it means to be a son of God as a thing that we are trying to experience and engage with Christ around rather than just discuss and this is why we have practices is because in the heated moment when we're in a certain mode, it's very difficult to switch modes Right if we're in a conversation and dialogue, I'm always thinking what what I just said what is this? What am I gonna say next and that makes it really hard to hear people you know and especially we're bringing a lot of emotional intellectual energy into a specific framing and so I think. What I would propose is will get wrapped us up. We will post the podcast and maybe schedule follow up time. Maybe maybe do it as a zoom call so that we can think we can still post that as a audio somewhere it's probably a way to do that Two Two Try to solve the problem what it means to be a son of God is probably not something we can squeeze into a couple of minutes at the end of a phone call and you know question that's onto the church for 2000 years but feels like an important one, so let's give it an hour or two and see if we can reach

Robby Butler
Where are you?

You
some not even so much agreement But some meaningful understanding that That will help us engage with the question more deeply in sustainably than we have

Robby Butler
Display package on I've had some issues in my phone with accessing recording I've made and I'm wondering if if you haven't had trouble if you would try just sharing this recording with me directly I can, of course download it after you uploaded it, but I'm more interested in seeing if I have an issue I need to somehow dig into with my phone. If you can easily share it with me if you run into a difficulty, then you would just let.

You
Yeah, the hard part is actually getting it out of the way Apple implemented this feature embarrasses me because the way that I do a

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
reporting is in note it's not in the voice memo app or you have a concrete recording and so you should jump a bunch of hoops to get the audio which is the hard part and so I can sign

Robby Butler
Right, yeah

You
but once I get the file, I could send it in a raw or upload it, but it's getting it out. That's the hard part.

Robby Butler
No, no Right I've tried sharing that note with somebody else that it creates and it didn't work and that's what I was wondering if you could do it

You
And only way to do that way I know it is to actually save out the audio file as a separate file. Otherwise it's if you don't do that right away it'll destroy it so.

Robby Butler
Well, you can share a note Reno from the notes even at the ball

You
I tried that, and at one time when I tried that it ended up destroying the audio so I don't want to try that before I save it out to a file

Robby Butler
OK, yeah well I don't take any time extra time. I'm not she is.

You
Yeah, but that's probably a good side. There's certain things that you share them

Robby Butler
Being with her

You
prematurely. It destroys them or at least destroying them and so there's always the

Robby Butler
Yeah

You
tension of immediate C versus persistence and so all right she'll be closing prayer.

Robby Butler
Go ahead

You
God, I thank you that you're not nearly restoring, but you are redeeming all things And I just wanted to player that priced is Lord, and that he is the logos of all creation and that he is the lamb that was slaying from before the foundations of this world That this world is not an accident or a mistake. This is what you have purpose, and it is good even when it's horrible and painful like the cross, and that we cry out for a deeper revelation of the sun. And of what it means to be sons of God and children of God because that is what we are, and I cry out for the grace to release relate to one another As Christ doesn't mean it'll be easy doesn't mean there won't be conflict doesn't won't be betrayal, but it does mean it was closer to you and even to our own selves and ultimately to one another To walk that journey all the way through so it's bitter and then sand and it's in that hole that we pray amen

Robby Butler
Yeah, I think I have a sense. God made that showing me that the disorder priorities for you were my tempting to hang onto new thoughts that I was having and you were talking rather than after. Listen to what you were saying And that improper value that the wrong thing appreciate

You
MM M wrong thing was it was was sufficient awareness is realizing like you know hey hold on the question but I do not have the mental space to think. Let me wait until I get there is the recognition of the season is. Is an honor that so that I understand these are hard things to be aware of, but that's what we want to grow into is perceiving the season correctly so that we're engaging people in the season that we're at

Robby Butler
The way that I told you speaking to me about it was that I am value Hang onto new thoughts I'm having because of fear that if I don't capture them, I'll lose them which ignores the fact that God already has his idea as well in hand that you can bring them back in his time greater fullness so that I can simply focus on the interaction with the person that And I think that's enough thing

You
Which is great cause I was one of the things I was trying to explain to you is that we in order to

Robby Butler
OK

You
incarnate as Christ as a baby in Bethlehem we have to be willing to forget And trust God to restore things so good that that's that's a a thing that God is teaching us together and we are learning together and as we build on that, we will learn more better and more effectively

Robby Butler
Yeah, then when she speaks to her gets penetrated whatever she OK bless you man

You
All right Sorry, God bless you bye-bye